Spanky Deluxe
Nov 28, 06:30 PM
They can **** right off, the greedy *******s!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
OllyW
Mar 26, 06:54 AM
Got to wait for the results from the beta testers who buy 10.7 on release. Learn the lessons of 10.6, I waited until 10.6.2 was out!
I'll get it and try it on the release day but I'll have a clone of my Snow Leopard HD ready incase it all goes tits up. :)
I'll get it and try it on the release day but I'll have a clone of my Snow Leopard HD ready incase it all goes tits up. :)
pubwvj
Mar 31, 05:07 PM
Android is the next windows. So many drivers, so much requirements, so many configurations, so little memory. Fortunately Apple's provided a better sandbox.
JAT
Apr 6, 03:51 PM
I guess it wouldn't hurt their future sales to announce international release dates. Several people I know have ordered or bought an iPad 2 simply because it is available (even with order backlogs) compared to Honeycomb tablets.
Here in continental Europe, all I saw so far was an announcement for the second quarter, which can slip to whenever...
Those of you who already got it - is it worth the wait?
Every Costco here has had Xooms in abundance since the first shipment. I'd say availability is good, interest...not so much.
Costco probably shouldn't have dropped Apple, wonder if they think about that.
Here in continental Europe, all I saw so far was an announcement for the second quarter, which can slip to whenever...
Those of you who already got it - is it worth the wait?
Every Costco here has had Xooms in abundance since the first shipment. I'd say availability is good, interest...not so much.
Costco probably shouldn't have dropped Apple, wonder if they think about that.
mcrain
Mar 23, 01:48 PM
Again, Fivepoint, you forget that the President was selling the Iraq war with suspicious and weak information that the many questioned. It turns out they were right. Pre-war, the big issue was whether the war was justified based on the evidence being pushed by the President. The criticism President Bush faced thereafter had a lot to do with the fact that he lied to the American people in order to start a poorly planned war. They bungled every aspect of a war they lied to get us into. There were plenty of reasons to be critical.
Even so, in the FIRST DAYS of the war, even the lefties supported the troops and the American military, they merely questioned whether we should be going to war.
This Libya conflict is similar in that there are people on the left today questioning whether we should be "going to war" with this no-fly zone, but there are also people who support the reason behind it, but also question why we haven't gone into other countries where there are similar humanitarian issues.
Out of curiousity, what do you expect? I expect conservative congressmen and women to support a conservative president, but to think for themselves, and do what they independently think is right. I don't respect blind support like what they did under GWB. Similarly, I expect liberal congressmen and women to support a liberal president, but to also think for themselves, and do what they independently think is right. Some are speaking out, and some are not blindly supporting President Obama. Can you acknowledge that the liberals are doing a better job with consistency than the GOP? If not, how do you explain GOP opposition to the Libya action?
Even so, in the FIRST DAYS of the war, even the lefties supported the troops and the American military, they merely questioned whether we should be going to war.
This Libya conflict is similar in that there are people on the left today questioning whether we should be "going to war" with this no-fly zone, but there are also people who support the reason behind it, but also question why we haven't gone into other countries where there are similar humanitarian issues.
Out of curiousity, what do you expect? I expect conservative congressmen and women to support a conservative president, but to think for themselves, and do what they independently think is right. I don't respect blind support like what they did under GWB. Similarly, I expect liberal congressmen and women to support a liberal president, but to also think for themselves, and do what they independently think is right. Some are speaking out, and some are not blindly supporting President Obama. Can you acknowledge that the liberals are doing a better job with consistency than the GOP? If not, how do you explain GOP opposition to the Libya action?
asiayeah
Aug 25, 06:14 PM
In US, people get free shipping for their new batteries.
In Hong Kong, we have to visit the service providers in person TWICE! First we have to go there and give up our old battery for registration. Then we have to wait for at least 10 days and visit the service providers AGAIN to get the new battery.
It's simply poor service from Apple!
P.S. The Apple HK support staff actually told me they just know about the news on the same day as me. They also incorrectly told me that only MacBook's batteries replacements have free shippings...
In Hong Kong, we have to visit the service providers in person TWICE! First we have to go there and give up our old battery for registration. Then we have to wait for at least 10 days and visit the service providers AGAIN to get the new battery.
It's simply poor service from Apple!
P.S. The Apple HK support staff actually told me they just know about the news on the same day as me. They also incorrectly told me that only MacBook's batteries replacements have free shippings...
kdarling
Apr 20, 04:34 PM
Knowing about the record label wasn't on the front page of the newspaper, this was the 1970's...there was no internet, it's more than just a little possible that Jobs did not know this. And you're assuming that logo was everywhere, and you're wrong.
Actually, anyone above the age of six knew about Apple Records.
We all lived and breathed vinyl back then :)
Actually, anyone above the age of six knew about Apple Records.
We all lived and breathed vinyl back then :)
mcrain
Apr 27, 10:47 AM
Stay classy Faux News:
Oh, it gets better. Apparently, the release of the birth certificate proving them wrong somehow demonstrates that the "birthers" were NOT kooks. :rolleyes:
President Obama reversed course today and answered critics, led by reality show host Donald Trump, who have called for him to release his original birth certificate.
Until now, the White House has stood by the president�s certificate of live birth, a health department document that attests to the existence of an actual birth certificate. The document has less information, but is valid proof of citizenship.
...
The president will address the press on the issue this morning just one day after his press secretary upbraided a reporter for even asking about such a thing.
...
Case in point: In a snappish press conference on Tuesday, Press Secretary Jay Carney gave a belittling answer to CNN�s Ed Henry for asking why the president doesn�t put the doubts over his nativity to rest by releasing his long-form birth certificate.
Carney told Henry that Americans would be �appalled� by the question and that he should be talking about serious issues involving the economy and foreign affairs.
...
Carney painted Obama into a corner by suggesting that he can�t deal with the distraction of answering the question about his birth certificate because he is working constantly to revive the economy and oversee three wars. How can he help Winfrey, raise money or even play golf by that standard?
Democrats long championed the idea of branding Republicans as kooks for believing that the president might not have been born in Hawaii. It explains why liberal outlets have given such lavish attention to Trump, who has embraced the issue.
But when a Gallup poll shows that only 38 percent of Americans are convinced of the president�s place of birth, the strategy of branding Republicans as �birthers� looks dubious. The fact that Obama has drawn a hard line against releasing his birth certificate amid such doubts was an unsustainable position amid legitimate inquiries from legitimate journalists like Henry. FauxNews (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/27/birther-strategy-backfires/)
Oh, it gets better. Apparently, the release of the birth certificate proving them wrong somehow demonstrates that the "birthers" were NOT kooks. :rolleyes:
President Obama reversed course today and answered critics, led by reality show host Donald Trump, who have called for him to release his original birth certificate.
Until now, the White House has stood by the president�s certificate of live birth, a health department document that attests to the existence of an actual birth certificate. The document has less information, but is valid proof of citizenship.
...
The president will address the press on the issue this morning just one day after his press secretary upbraided a reporter for even asking about such a thing.
...
Case in point: In a snappish press conference on Tuesday, Press Secretary Jay Carney gave a belittling answer to CNN�s Ed Henry for asking why the president doesn�t put the doubts over his nativity to rest by releasing his long-form birth certificate.
Carney told Henry that Americans would be �appalled� by the question and that he should be talking about serious issues involving the economy and foreign affairs.
...
Carney painted Obama into a corner by suggesting that he can�t deal with the distraction of answering the question about his birth certificate because he is working constantly to revive the economy and oversee three wars. How can he help Winfrey, raise money or even play golf by that standard?
Democrats long championed the idea of branding Republicans as kooks for believing that the president might not have been born in Hawaii. It explains why liberal outlets have given such lavish attention to Trump, who has embraced the issue.
But when a Gallup poll shows that only 38 percent of Americans are convinced of the president�s place of birth, the strategy of branding Republicans as �birthers� looks dubious. The fact that Obama has drawn a hard line against releasing his birth certificate amid such doubts was an unsustainable position amid legitimate inquiries from legitimate journalists like Henry. FauxNews (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/27/birther-strategy-backfires/)
jeffereyj
Apr 6, 01:12 PM
sorry but if you're trying to do "pro" work on a MBA, ur doin it wrong.
i'm glad Apple has their MBA line for ultra-portability, plus the MBP line for intensive portable work.
i'm glad Apple has their MBA line for ultra-portability, plus the MBP line for intensive portable work.
0815
Mar 31, 05:05 PM
Apple realized long time ago that it is bad if the cell service provider has too much freedom, puts too much **** on the phone and customizes it in ways that it is no longer maintainable ... they got bashed as being too closed.
But now people finally realize they were right:
- android is getting too fragmented because service providers are either too slow to provide updates or refuse to update at all for current phones
- microsoft just realed an update to their mobile7 - guess what: service providers are too slow to update the brand new phones - weeks after the MS release they still need many more weeks to 'test' and 'adjust' for their phones
What good is it to have an OS that claims to be 'open' but you still can't get updates because the openess was abused by service providers who struggle to re-adding their ****.
But now people finally realize they were right:
- android is getting too fragmented because service providers are either too slow to provide updates or refuse to update at all for current phones
- microsoft just realed an update to their mobile7 - guess what: service providers are too slow to update the brand new phones - weeks after the MS release they still need many more weeks to 'test' and 'adjust' for their phones
What good is it to have an OS that claims to be 'open' but you still can't get updates because the openess was abused by service providers who struggle to re-adding their ****.
Al Coholic
Apr 27, 08:43 AM
They also note that findings that the database continues to grow despite Location services being off as a bug that will soon be addressed.
???
The MRbot needs some lessons in basic sentence structure.
Apple is planning on releasing a free iOS update in the next few weeks that performs the following:
- ceases backing up this cache, and
- deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.
Oh joy. Now AT&T's lightening-fast EDGE network will seek mindlessly for hours trying to find that lone cell tower as I drive across rural-ass USA. It'll probably take me days to dial out as well.
Thanks Al Franken! Glad you got your useless staff to address this useless matter because there's nothing else you should be doing right now. (Enjoy your short senate term).
???
The MRbot needs some lessons in basic sentence structure.
Apple is planning on releasing a free iOS update in the next few weeks that performs the following:
- ceases backing up this cache, and
- deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.
Oh joy. Now AT&T's lightening-fast EDGE network will seek mindlessly for hours trying to find that lone cell tower as I drive across rural-ass USA. It'll probably take me days to dial out as well.
Thanks Al Franken! Glad you got your useless staff to address this useless matter because there's nothing else you should be doing right now. (Enjoy your short senate term).
sososowhat
Sep 13, 09:50 AM
One could run a Folding@Home process on each core :D
DeathChill
Apr 7, 10:29 PM
me too! I wanna learn!
How does withholding stock from the public aid a company? I can imagine holding them till everything is registered in their system and accounted for. But turning people away when they actually do have stock doesn't sound like a good business practice to me
I read over at TechCrunch that it was to meet daily sales quotas, which is to benefit the store manager, mostly. They look better for hitting/beating their quota everyday, regardless of whether or not it is actually at all helpful to Best Buy.
How does withholding stock from the public aid a company? I can imagine holding them till everything is registered in their system and accounted for. But turning people away when they actually do have stock doesn't sound like a good business practice to me
I read over at TechCrunch that it was to meet daily sales quotas, which is to benefit the store manager, mostly. They look better for hitting/beating their quota everyday, regardless of whether or not it is actually at all helpful to Best Buy.
layte
Mar 31, 03:52 PM
You're moving the goal posts. That always has been the wonderful thing about the words "open" and "free" with respect to software. They never really meant much but had such loaded connotations. You can change the definition mid-argument as easily as you change what hat you're wearing.
I look ace in a Trilby.
You know, projecting isn't healthy at all.
You'd best stop then old fella (yea, I can play forum clich�d response 101 as well, /tips-hat)
I look ace in a Trilby.
You know, projecting isn't healthy at all.
You'd best stop then old fella (yea, I can play forum clich�d response 101 as well, /tips-hat)
Demoman
Sep 15, 10:52 PM
Uh, last time I checked, Windows can take advantage of multiple cores just fine. Do you think that multithreading is some Black Magic that only MacOS can do? Hell, standard Linux from kernel.org can use 512 cores as we speak!
Related to this: Maybe not 512-way SMP, but here (http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/IP27_boot_messages) is what it looks like when Linux boots on 128-way SGI Origin supercomputer. Note, the kernel that is booting is 2.4.1, which was released in early 2001. Things have progressed A LOT since those day.
OS X works with quad core == "Ahead of technology curve"... puhleeze!
Windows works just fine with dual-core. It really does. To Wndows, dual-core is more or less similar to typical SMP, and Windows has supported SMP since Windows NT!
Any reason why it wouldn't work? And did you even read the Anandtech-article? They conducted their benchmarks in Windows XP! So it obviously DID work with four cores! And it DID show substantial improvement in performance in real-life apps! Sheesh! Dial tone that fanboysihness a bit, dude.
I think the same applies to you, Bill. You seem to be here to act as a Microsoft evangelist.
Related to this: Maybe not 512-way SMP, but here (http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/IP27_boot_messages) is what it looks like when Linux boots on 128-way SGI Origin supercomputer. Note, the kernel that is booting is 2.4.1, which was released in early 2001. Things have progressed A LOT since those day.
OS X works with quad core == "Ahead of technology curve"... puhleeze!
Windows works just fine with dual-core. It really does. To Wndows, dual-core is more or less similar to typical SMP, and Windows has supported SMP since Windows NT!
Any reason why it wouldn't work? And did you even read the Anandtech-article? They conducted their benchmarks in Windows XP! So it obviously DID work with four cores! And it DID show substantial improvement in performance in real-life apps! Sheesh! Dial tone that fanboysihness a bit, dude.
I think the same applies to you, Bill. You seem to be here to act as a Microsoft evangelist.
rdowns
Apr 28, 04:48 PM
Jesus wasn't born in America, yet you don't see Republicans trying to keep him out of government.
eoblaed
Apr 25, 02:48 PM
Thinking it's only stored on the device and not used by Apple is naive. What's the point of logging your every location if it's not going to be used in some way.
When you bought your device (even if you didn't purchase one, I'm speaking to the general 'you'), you knew that it had GPS capabilities. You knew that the phone knew where you were at any given time.
You also knew it had network capabilities. Nothing stops any GPS device with networking capabilities from broadcasting this data without you knowing. We trust the manufacturers of these devices to not do that.
Saying you don't trust Apple/Google/etc to not secretly broadcast your data just because it's backed up like your contacts/phone-conversation-information/texts/etc runs counter to the same trust you placed in those companies when you bought the device; if they're willing to broadcast that data because it's saved on your device they could just as easily broadcast that data as it's being gathered, real time without storing it. In fact, it'd be easier to do that since there wouldn't be an easy artifact left behind for people to gawk at.
Seriously, if you trust these companies to not broadcast your data behind your back while you're using it, why do you think they're going to broadcast it because it's part of your backup?
When you bought your device (even if you didn't purchase one, I'm speaking to the general 'you'), you knew that it had GPS capabilities. You knew that the phone knew where you were at any given time.
You also knew it had network capabilities. Nothing stops any GPS device with networking capabilities from broadcasting this data without you knowing. We trust the manufacturers of these devices to not do that.
Saying you don't trust Apple/Google/etc to not secretly broadcast your data just because it's backed up like your contacts/phone-conversation-information/texts/etc runs counter to the same trust you placed in those companies when you bought the device; if they're willing to broadcast that data because it's saved on your device they could just as easily broadcast that data as it's being gathered, real time without storing it. In fact, it'd be easier to do that since there wouldn't be an easy artifact left behind for people to gawk at.
Seriously, if you trust these companies to not broadcast your data behind your back while you're using it, why do you think they're going to broadcast it because it's part of your backup?
Daringescape
Aug 12, 10:49 AM
If this phone would affect Nano sales, do you think that could be the reason Apple is giving them away with MacBook and MacBookPro sales? Trying to get rid of extra stock before the iPhone is released?
just a thought
Russ
just a thought
Russ
-SD-
Aug 19, 02:25 PM
Kart racing and Course Maker videos and pictures over on Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/19/gran-turismo-5-course-maker-and-kart-racing-unveiled/).
:apple:
:apple:
filmguy
Aug 17, 07:16 PM
From now on, whatever processor Apple has, Windows has, and the differences will come down mostly on the OS.
I agree with your post and I'm also a PC-TO-MAC CONVERT. :)
The difference is going to come down to OS, as well as, the overall design of a machine and how well it's engineered. Apple seem to engineer machines of high quality, from the mere fact that their machines stand the test of time e.g. the other day I was working on a G4, on FCP 5.1, editing and rendering HDV footage in its native format, HDV1080i50 (Australian Sony camera). Although it wasn't the quickest performance, it held its own.
Also, I'm an I.T. guy transitioning to film (pre-prod, shoot, and post-prod) and the whole Mac experience is different from a PC, from a creative workflow point-of-view. I bought MY FIRST MAC this week - Mac Pro, 3 Ghz, 2 Gig RAM, 250 Gig HD, standard video card, and previously owned 2 x 300 Gig Ext Maxtor 7200 RPM. I also bought AE 7, Adobe Web Bundle and FCP Studio 5.1. I shoot with the Sony Z1P and will soon have some sample work on the web.
Lastly, OS X will always be superior to Windows based on the fact that it's built on a UNIX foundation. If I'm not mistaken, Windows code has just built on top of existing code year-after-year. :mad: I think the OS X was a fresh build.
I agree with your post and I'm also a PC-TO-MAC CONVERT. :)
The difference is going to come down to OS, as well as, the overall design of a machine and how well it's engineered. Apple seem to engineer machines of high quality, from the mere fact that their machines stand the test of time e.g. the other day I was working on a G4, on FCP 5.1, editing and rendering HDV footage in its native format, HDV1080i50 (Australian Sony camera). Although it wasn't the quickest performance, it held its own.
Also, I'm an I.T. guy transitioning to film (pre-prod, shoot, and post-prod) and the whole Mac experience is different from a PC, from a creative workflow point-of-view. I bought MY FIRST MAC this week - Mac Pro, 3 Ghz, 2 Gig RAM, 250 Gig HD, standard video card, and previously owned 2 x 300 Gig Ext Maxtor 7200 RPM. I also bought AE 7, Adobe Web Bundle and FCP Studio 5.1. I shoot with the Sony Z1P and will soon have some sample work on the web.
Lastly, OS X will always be superior to Windows based on the fact that it's built on a UNIX foundation. If I'm not mistaken, Windows code has just built on top of existing code year-after-year. :mad: I think the OS X was a fresh build.
Lord Blackadder
Mar 23, 12:02 PM
Pull your fingers out of your ears (or in this case your eyes) fivepoint, and pay attention to our responses. They would answer your question/accusation/calumny.
JoshH
Aug 7, 02:06 PM
Looks like a good time to let my PM D1.25Ghz G4 retire... The new MP must be at least 10 times faster. :eek:
Apple store up again. The old PM G5 seem to be gone.
Me too. I've tortured my poor PM dual 867 long enough. Retirement would be good.
... in a nice place where she'd be treated well, of course.
Apple store up again. The old PM G5 seem to be gone.
Me too. I've tortured my poor PM dual 867 long enough. Retirement would be good.
... in a nice place where she'd be treated well, of course.
Cameront9
Aug 7, 04:46 PM
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/accessibility.html
From this site:
Closed captioning
QuickTime currently supports closed captioning by including a text track alongside audio and video content. But improved QuickTime support will automatically display the CEA-608 closed captioning text standard in analog broadcasts in the U.S.
-----
Anyone think this means support for Closed Captioning in iTunes video downloads? As a hearing-impaired Mac-User, the lack of subtitles/captions in the TV shows is the one thing keeping me from buying a bunch of them. I hope they address this issue soon...
As for the rest of the stuff:
1) Time Machine--cool name for a cool idea. However, I use a Powerbook, and my External HD is in another room. It's not connected all the time. I wonder how this setup will work? And like others, I initially thought "System Restore," but then I realized how different this is, and how Useful. But how far back can you go? I have files on my computer that are almost 10 years old....Will time machine be able to find stuff that was deleted years ago (I do mean AFTER time Machine is installed...I obviously don't expect it to find stuff deleted before TM was installed).
2) Mail. To-Do implementation looks neat, and themes might be fun for a Christmas letter. But I really don't care about HTML mail.
3) iChat. "Share the Screen" looks awesome, if it works well. So does being able to do a slideshow while chatting with someone...
4) Spaces. I've gotten so used to Expose, I can't see Virtual desktops being that big a deal to me. But It's a good feature for those who want it.
5) Dashboard. From the previews, it seems like Dashcode will be available as part of the OS?
6) Spotlight. Over-the-network searches sound great.
7) iCal. More networking features are great, but most of my friends/coworkers have PCs, so moot point for me.
8) Accessibilty: See above about Closed Captioning. Anything that helps Hearing impaired users is great.
9) 64-bit. Kind of Obvious?
10) Core Animation: Will my 1.67 G4 Powerbook be able to utilize this in any way?
Overall, great Keynote, I thought. the only people that should be disappointed are the ones claiming all kinds of crazy stuff, as always.
From this site:
Closed captioning
QuickTime currently supports closed captioning by including a text track alongside audio and video content. But improved QuickTime support will automatically display the CEA-608 closed captioning text standard in analog broadcasts in the U.S.
-----
Anyone think this means support for Closed Captioning in iTunes video downloads? As a hearing-impaired Mac-User, the lack of subtitles/captions in the TV shows is the one thing keeping me from buying a bunch of them. I hope they address this issue soon...
As for the rest of the stuff:
1) Time Machine--cool name for a cool idea. However, I use a Powerbook, and my External HD is in another room. It's not connected all the time. I wonder how this setup will work? And like others, I initially thought "System Restore," but then I realized how different this is, and how Useful. But how far back can you go? I have files on my computer that are almost 10 years old....Will time machine be able to find stuff that was deleted years ago (I do mean AFTER time Machine is installed...I obviously don't expect it to find stuff deleted before TM was installed).
2) Mail. To-Do implementation looks neat, and themes might be fun for a Christmas letter. But I really don't care about HTML mail.
3) iChat. "Share the Screen" looks awesome, if it works well. So does being able to do a slideshow while chatting with someone...
4) Spaces. I've gotten so used to Expose, I can't see Virtual desktops being that big a deal to me. But It's a good feature for those who want it.
5) Dashboard. From the previews, it seems like Dashcode will be available as part of the OS?
6) Spotlight. Over-the-network searches sound great.
7) iCal. More networking features are great, but most of my friends/coworkers have PCs, so moot point for me.
8) Accessibilty: See above about Closed Captioning. Anything that helps Hearing impaired users is great.
9) 64-bit. Kind of Obvious?
10) Core Animation: Will my 1.67 G4 Powerbook be able to utilize this in any way?
Overall, great Keynote, I thought. the only people that should be disappointed are the ones claiming all kinds of crazy stuff, as always.
notjustjay
Apr 8, 12:22 AM
I do not intend to be rude, but there is a difference in HDMI cables, no matter what the Internet tells you. Conductors, shielding materials/layers and the way the connectors are put together are a few differentiators. An AudioQuest Coffee cable, for example, which is several hundred dollars ($600 I believe for a 1.5m) is made of pure silver starting with the tips and going the length of the cable. This is not the same as a no name $5 dollar HDMI cable from Amazon.
Sure there is a difference, but is it noticable? Is it worth the cost?
A Ferrari costs a lot more than a Ford Fiesta. It's better built and has a lot more power under the hood. But if all you're ever doing is driving at 20 mph, then it doesn't matter, the Fiesta has all the power you need and you'll save a pile of money. Now, you don't want to go rock bottom and buy a junker that might break down, but as long as it runs smoothly at 20 mph, any car will do the job.
You don't want ultra-cheap crappy cables that can develop loose connections or come poorly shielded, as that can cause dropouts. But neither do you need pure silver or oxygen-free shielding or whatever. Any HDMI cable will either fail outright or do the exact same job as any other for the given application.
Sure there is a difference, but is it noticable? Is it worth the cost?
A Ferrari costs a lot more than a Ford Fiesta. It's better built and has a lot more power under the hood. But if all you're ever doing is driving at 20 mph, then it doesn't matter, the Fiesta has all the power you need and you'll save a pile of money. Now, you don't want to go rock bottom and buy a junker that might break down, but as long as it runs smoothly at 20 mph, any car will do the job.
You don't want ultra-cheap crappy cables that can develop loose connections or come poorly shielded, as that can cause dropouts. But neither do you need pure silver or oxygen-free shielding or whatever. Any HDMI cable will either fail outright or do the exact same job as any other for the given application.
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