afrowq
Apr 8, 11:03 PM
Coming from a full-time, multimedia/journalism/photography/etc professional I have to totally and completely
AGREE!
I've seen a huge decline in Apple's interest in the professional market, and I don't even mean high end pro, we're talking SMB and SOHO type stuff here. The last revision of FCP was just not worth it unless you were buying new or buying to ensure you didn't have any left over bugs.
Avid Media Composer and Premier have gained massive leads on FCP in terms of workflow and speed. Once the younger college students start seeing how fast they can delivery a product with Adobe or Avid, they'll start wondering why the small houses switched to FCP in the first place, and start wanting to learn what the industry is working with . . . Avid, After Effects, ProTools, etc. And the iMovie Pro will be left to indie filmmakers and consumers with deep pockets
** disclaimer ** I have nothing against the indie segment . . . I am in it and love it. But Apple makes it harder with every update to justify staying with a company that has too much on it's plate, and not enough staff to keep up with the rest of the market.
Apple will always claim that "no one's buying it" rather than, "we didn't make it marketable and desirable" when they go to axe some hardware or software title.
Careful, some trolls will insist that your opinion is only relevant to your narrow world view and that you need itemized spreadsheets to prove that you know what you're talking about.
AGREE!
I've seen a huge decline in Apple's interest in the professional market, and I don't even mean high end pro, we're talking SMB and SOHO type stuff here. The last revision of FCP was just not worth it unless you were buying new or buying to ensure you didn't have any left over bugs.
Avid Media Composer and Premier have gained massive leads on FCP in terms of workflow and speed. Once the younger college students start seeing how fast they can delivery a product with Adobe or Avid, they'll start wondering why the small houses switched to FCP in the first place, and start wanting to learn what the industry is working with . . . Avid, After Effects, ProTools, etc. And the iMovie Pro will be left to indie filmmakers and consumers with deep pockets
** disclaimer ** I have nothing against the indie segment . . . I am in it and love it. But Apple makes it harder with every update to justify staying with a company that has too much on it's plate, and not enough staff to keep up with the rest of the market.
Apple will always claim that "no one's buying it" rather than, "we didn't make it marketable and desirable" when they go to axe some hardware or software title.
Careful, some trolls will insist that your opinion is only relevant to your narrow world view and that you need itemized spreadsheets to prove that you know what you're talking about.
Glideslope
Apr 25, 03:53 PM
Except it doesn't use GPS data. It uses cell towers and wifi.
Ouch!!!!! :apple:
Ouch!!!!! :apple:
macfan881
Aug 5, 06:32 PM
im really hoping if there is a new ipod coming out they anounce it monday cause my b-day is in a week and ill might be able to get a new one and if they anounce a full screen ipod and can aford it ill get that or hope they drop the price in the curent ipods like maybe 199 for 30 gig and 299 60?;)
yoak
Apr 11, 03:59 PM
For the past three years, Apple's decisions in the professional market have been a bag of fail.
Anyone else starting to get a sinking feeling?
I don�t. Why would they even bother with a new version of FCS.
I also think Thunderbolt is an indication that Apple are thinking of the pro segment.
I do agree they have focused too much (from my perspective, probably not from the stockholders) on iDevices lately, but I don�t think they will abandon the pro market
Anyone else starting to get a sinking feeling?
I don�t. Why would they even bother with a new version of FCS.
I also think Thunderbolt is an indication that Apple are thinking of the pro segment.
I do agree they have focused too much (from my perspective, probably not from the stockholders) on iDevices lately, but I don�t think they will abandon the pro market
gnasher729
Aug 18, 03:31 PM
Thats showing that the quad core Mac Pro is essentially the same speed as dual core Mac Pro. To translate it to normal mac scenario: If apple releases a 2.66GHz Conroe iMac/Mac/whathaveyou it will be able to crunch through FCP/Photoshop/etc faster than a Mac Pro because it can use regular DDR2 and won't suffer from horrendous memory latency.
It only shows that one company can expect to get massive complaints from its customers soon about its crappy software. An H.264 encoder can easily use two dozen cores if they are there (apart from the fact that it might be limited by the speed of the DVD drive if you encode straight from DVD); there is no reason at all why this software shouldn't be twice as fast on a Quad core and four times as fast on an eight core machine.
It only shows that one company can expect to get massive complaints from its customers soon about its crappy software. An H.264 encoder can easily use two dozen cores if they are there (apart from the fact that it might be limited by the speed of the DVD drive if you encode straight from DVD); there is no reason at all why this software shouldn't be twice as fast on a Quad core and four times as fast on an eight core machine.
magbarn
Apr 7, 11:45 PM
Good for Apple on this. One less retailer over charging for their products. I hope they pull the Apple stores out all together and find a new retail partner.
What 'new retail partner'? Kmart? BB is the last big box electronic store nationwide in the US. There's a few Fry's/Microcenter's around, but those are far and few in-between.
I got the call for the ATT 64gb I had reserved with the $100 gift card a week ago. Had to waste a work-day going to BB as instead of the '48 hour hold' I originally thought I had, the manager said they were in some 'trouble' with Apple and said he could only hold my reservation for a few hours as Apple did not like them holding the ipad 2's in reserve.
What 'new retail partner'? Kmart? BB is the last big box electronic store nationwide in the US. There's a few Fry's/Microcenter's around, but those are far and few in-between.
I got the call for the ATT 64gb I had reserved with the $100 gift card a week ago. Had to waste a work-day going to BB as instead of the '48 hour hold' I originally thought I had, the manager said they were in some 'trouble' with Apple and said he could only hold my reservation for a few hours as Apple did not like them holding the ipad 2's in reserve.
Lollypop
Jul 20, 08:12 AM
seems the tragic days of the P4 are gone for intel, good for us! :p With all the high end stuff from intel thats apparently going into the mac im a bit worried about the price of the systems though!
wizard
Apr 10, 03:53 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
A bit of selective hearing on the part of MacRumors with the quotes they chose to use. At first the video sounds great, dude is hyping what he saw from Apple. But later he gets called out from another speculating Apple is making a very significant change and distancing Final Cut from the real 'pro' users, dumbing it down, etc, and the guy who has seen it gets real quiet.. He is asked if he will update his editing studio's workflow to the new Final Cut, and he basically danced around the question, pleaded the 5th, and made it pretty clear that he is holding back some reservations about how the industry will adapt to the changes.
Personally I'm very interested to see what they do, I'm sure it will have huge improvements on real time rendering and performance, sounds like the whole thing is being rewritten. But it does worry me that the program could become more for mass audience and no longer the pro application it has been for the past decade.
A hammer is a hammer, the only significant difference between pro use and amature is how you swing it. Sometimes the pros get a little full of themselves and don't realize that tools are just there to express your imagination.
A bit of selective hearing on the part of MacRumors with the quotes they chose to use. At first the video sounds great, dude is hyping what he saw from Apple. But later he gets called out from another speculating Apple is making a very significant change and distancing Final Cut from the real 'pro' users, dumbing it down, etc, and the guy who has seen it gets real quiet.. He is asked if he will update his editing studio's workflow to the new Final Cut, and he basically danced around the question, pleaded the 5th, and made it pretty clear that he is holding back some reservations about how the industry will adapt to the changes.
Personally I'm very interested to see what they do, I'm sure it will have huge improvements on real time rendering and performance, sounds like the whole thing is being rewritten. But it does worry me that the program could become more for mass audience and no longer the pro application it has been for the past decade.
A hammer is a hammer, the only significant difference between pro use and amature is how you swing it. Sometimes the pros get a little full of themselves and don't realize that tools are just there to express your imagination.
Leoff
Sep 19, 07:28 AM
Sorry but I've heard this so many times it gets pretty annoying. Dont assume to know what ppl want to use their Macbooks for. I want to use it for music production which can be very intensive on the processor, other people for graphics etc where a few seconds shaved off processing times when added up many times can make quite a difference to productivity.
Also, when the new chips come out it will instantly knock a chunk off the resell value - yes this is always the way with technology but buying when an update is coming soon seems silly.
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
Also, when the new chips come out it will instantly knock a chunk off the resell value - yes this is always the way with technology but buying when an update is coming soon seems silly.
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
robotx21
Sep 19, 12:51 PM
I'm kinda glad they didn't release the macbook pro's today. All that means, if they are released next week, it will be more than just a minor update :-D Here's to hoping!
ergle2
Sep 19, 12:56 PM
thx for your reply,
i will go for the mac pro quad know (i'm updating my home computer wich is a G3, but i'm used to work on a dual G5 for my projects) and yeah i will allways be able then to update later, but how about ram, when DDR3 comes out, i read that its going to replace FB-DIMMs so will that be upgradeble too???
cause these FB-DIMMS are so ********** expensive :) thx
DDR and FB aren't mutually exclusive technologies. Current FB-DIMMs use DDR2 chips. Newer FB-DIMMs will use DDR3 chips but due to the way FB-DIMMs work -- the buffer and control hardware essentially sit between the memory and the MCH -- you should still be able to use them in a Mac Pro. Note, should, not will.
You won't be able to use regular DDR3 DIMMs just like you can't use regular DDR2 DIMMs tho'. That's something that'd require a major design change to the motherboard.
So, memory will still be damn' expensive compared to that found in the cheap desktops...
i will go for the mac pro quad know (i'm updating my home computer wich is a G3, but i'm used to work on a dual G5 for my projects) and yeah i will allways be able then to update later, but how about ram, when DDR3 comes out, i read that its going to replace FB-DIMMs so will that be upgradeble too???
cause these FB-DIMMS are so ********** expensive :) thx
DDR and FB aren't mutually exclusive technologies. Current FB-DIMMs use DDR2 chips. Newer FB-DIMMs will use DDR3 chips but due to the way FB-DIMMs work -- the buffer and control hardware essentially sit between the memory and the MCH -- you should still be able to use them in a Mac Pro. Note, should, not will.
You won't be able to use regular DDR3 DIMMs just like you can't use regular DDR2 DIMMs tho'. That's something that'd require a major design change to the motherboard.
So, memory will still be damn' expensive compared to that found in the cheap desktops...
Kane.Elson
Jul 29, 03:42 AM
Love this news. Just what I was expecting and one of the main reasons to have waited for Core 2 Duo mobile Macs. :)
Ahh the rewards of waiting.
The performance increase and the 64-bit sounded good but this just makes me grin about the fact that I waited. I can never get enough battery life.
Ahh the rewards of waiting.
The performance increase and the 64-bit sounded good but this just makes me grin about the fact that I waited. I can never get enough battery life.
bassfingers
Apr 27, 01:13 PM
Where's the extremism?
obamacare in its smallest form is extreme
stimulus bill is extreme (and extrememly $$)
The extreme people he hires, etc.
Don't lose faith in his craziness just because he's postponed driving our country into the ground.
And it's a good thing he showed his birth certificate. How embarrassing would it be for us to look back, and the man who did all the damage wasn't even born here?
If you want america to be like europe. Go to europe and pretend you're in america. Don't jack up America for those of us who love it for what it was founded on.
(insert here where some smart-A responds with "slavery?" or something equally inapplicable)
obamacare in its smallest form is extreme
stimulus bill is extreme (and extrememly $$)
The extreme people he hires, etc.
Don't lose faith in his craziness just because he's postponed driving our country into the ground.
And it's a good thing he showed his birth certificate. How embarrassing would it be for us to look back, and the man who did all the damage wasn't even born here?
If you want america to be like europe. Go to europe and pretend you're in america. Don't jack up America for those of us who love it for what it was founded on.
(insert here where some smart-A responds with "slavery?" or something equally inapplicable)
BWhaler
Aug 26, 06:37 PM
In other news, Merom this, Merom that, just make sure you get it out on time Apple :p
...and with quality.
Enough of these crappy shortcuts and horific QA Apple; we're premium buyers. Or maybe you didn't notice how well Dell is doing nowadays.
You're screwing up, intel. We don't want 300 trillion transistors on a 1 nm die. We want longer battery life. Idiots.
Agreed. I still think Intel doesn't get it. Yes, faster is good. But Intel has been paying lip service to the 9 - 10 hour battery life for about a decade now.
Only problem with that is that a 2.33 GHz Merom chip will be fifty percent more expensive than a 2.16 GHz Yonah is today. So do you think Apple will increase prices of the MacBook Pro by $150 to $200 or reduce their profit?
Wrong. Just wrong.
Google is your friend. Learn some facts before you post.
Yippee.....
Definitely buying a MBP asap.....not gonna wait for santa rosa!
Me too. I am sure I could squeeze out another 9 months with my 17" PowerBook--which is less than 1 year old--but I think it's time to get with the future.
It's a pretty easy decision given how much faster the Intel Macs are.
Old, but still funny. A little :p
Only if you have no sense of humour! :p
Nothing would make me happier than for the new MacBook Pros to be shipping early next week. And with all of the quality issues worked out.
My expectations for the next generation 17" MacBook Pro:
2.33 Core 2 Duo
Better GPU
160gig HD
Higher quality displays. No more of this uneven backlighting crap.
My hopes:
Longer battery life
Get the power adaptor below 70 watts so we can use them on planes
Lower price
Hell, I'm buying whatever comes next. I just hope there are some solid spec bumps across the board.
And most importantly, I hope Apple fixes the crappy quality issues that have been plaguing their portable line all year.
...and with quality.
Enough of these crappy shortcuts and horific QA Apple; we're premium buyers. Or maybe you didn't notice how well Dell is doing nowadays.
You're screwing up, intel. We don't want 300 trillion transistors on a 1 nm die. We want longer battery life. Idiots.
Agreed. I still think Intel doesn't get it. Yes, faster is good. But Intel has been paying lip service to the 9 - 10 hour battery life for about a decade now.
Only problem with that is that a 2.33 GHz Merom chip will be fifty percent more expensive than a 2.16 GHz Yonah is today. So do you think Apple will increase prices of the MacBook Pro by $150 to $200 or reduce their profit?
Wrong. Just wrong.
Google is your friend. Learn some facts before you post.
Yippee.....
Definitely buying a MBP asap.....not gonna wait for santa rosa!
Me too. I am sure I could squeeze out another 9 months with my 17" PowerBook--which is less than 1 year old--but I think it's time to get with the future.
It's a pretty easy decision given how much faster the Intel Macs are.
Old, but still funny. A little :p
Only if you have no sense of humour! :p
Nothing would make me happier than for the new MacBook Pros to be shipping early next week. And with all of the quality issues worked out.
My expectations for the next generation 17" MacBook Pro:
2.33 Core 2 Duo
Better GPU
160gig HD
Higher quality displays. No more of this uneven backlighting crap.
My hopes:
Longer battery life
Get the power adaptor below 70 watts so we can use them on planes
Lower price
Hell, I'm buying whatever comes next. I just hope there are some solid spec bumps across the board.
And most importantly, I hope Apple fixes the crappy quality issues that have been plaguing their portable line all year.
ugp
Jun 11, 01:57 PM
We are being told that inventory will be limited for non preorder customers. Basically, if you want one, you better preorder.
About opening before apple stores...
Thats what i thought too, but the only thing we were told is no later than 8am opening. Basically we can open anytime up to 8am.
I am praying that the Managers here get told the same thing by the DMs as well. Would make things a lot easier. If Radio Shack announces they are opening before everyone else you better prepare for a lot of customers.
About opening before apple stores...
Thats what i thought too, but the only thing we were told is no later than 8am opening. Basically we can open anytime up to 8am.
I am praying that the Managers here get told the same thing by the DMs as well. Would make things a lot easier. If Radio Shack announces they are opening before everyone else you better prepare for a lot of customers.
MacBoobsPro
Jul 20, 08:55 AM
I agree, increasing the number of cores can't be the only solution on long term. In my opinion it's time to rethink CPUs: Single, maybe dual core, high processing* power with extremly low power consumption, much lower than we have nowadays.
* Whatever that exactly means, I don't know.
Is having more cores more energy efficient than having one big fat ass 24Ghz processor? Maybe thats a factor in the increasing core count.
* Whatever that exactly means, I don't know.
Is having more cores more energy efficient than having one big fat ass 24Ghz processor? Maybe thats a factor in the increasing core count.
01civicman
Apr 8, 08:28 AM
Scenario 1: Store expects 1000 customers. Customer 15 walks in and buys all the store's stock. The remaining 985 customer walk in through the day and are told we have nothing to sell you. These 98.5% of the daily customers never return to the store in the future.
Scenario 2: Store expects 1000 customers and rations stock to serve the needs of the greatest percentage of their daily customers as possible. The great majority of customers are happy and continue to patronize the store in the future.
Scenario 2 above does not seem so bizarre to me.
We are talking business here, business that needs to function over time and not just over one day. All I know is there are a lot of people here who are taking great pleasure trashing a store for their own personal reasons. But the store must serve their overall client base as best as possible and sometimes that may mean being unable to satisfy every specific request every day.
If somebody came into my store and asked for all of the iPads, my managers would buy him dinner for a week. lol
Scenario 2: Store expects 1000 customers and rations stock to serve the needs of the greatest percentage of their daily customers as possible. The great majority of customers are happy and continue to patronize the store in the future.
Scenario 2 above does not seem so bizarre to me.
We are talking business here, business that needs to function over time and not just over one day. All I know is there are a lot of people here who are taking great pleasure trashing a store for their own personal reasons. But the store must serve their overall client base as best as possible and sometimes that may mean being unable to satisfy every specific request every day.
If somebody came into my store and asked for all of the iPads, my managers would buy him dinner for a week. lol
Eidorian
Aug 26, 05:50 PM
Anyone know of benchmarks comparing the core duo with the core 2 duo?http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom#Benchmarks
milo
Jul 27, 02:21 PM
Those aren't next generation version of the Core 2 just MCM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Chip_Module) of the existing Core 2.
Still, they are the successors to conroe and woodcrest. As long as they are socket compatible, they're the next generation for these machines, whether you consider them a new chip or not.
Am i the only one that seems to think that WWDC is getting clogged up with TOO many things? I mean sure the more Apple products released/updated the better, but this keynote seems to be taking a lot of emphasis off of Leopard previews (according to the rumors)
It's all just rumor at this point. More than 2 computer announcments would be very unlikely, and the idea that all macs would get updated at once is ridiculous.
Well it's back to the future for all of us. Remember when the Mac was going 64-bit with the introduction of the G5 PowerMac on June 23, 2003? :rolleyes: Only more thanthree years later and we're doing it all over again thanks to Yonah's 7 month retrograde.
The only mac that took a step back was the iMac, and it never took advantage of any of the 64 bit advantages in the first place.
I can't figure out why it wouldn't have a 2nd slot or FW800. They're both cheap enough to add. The only problem is the 2nd slot adds some height, but not that much. This unit would be less than 5" tall. And anyway, how do you backup your CD's?
A second slot is overkill for a midline model. And Apple has obviously made the decision that FW800 is a pro feature only, if it's not in the 15 inch MBP. Not to mention that it's not included in the standard intel chipsets, so adding it is extra work for Apple.
Remember that the G5 is 64 bit. While the consumer apps may not be too directly affected at first, (speed increases, but nothing else), as more memory is required, 32 bit will hit a brick wall at 4GiB, whereas 64 bit can go along happily to 2,305,843,009,200,000,000GiB.
And since the iMacs have never supported more than 2 gigs of ram, how is that a step back by switching them to Yonah?
Still, they are the successors to conroe and woodcrest. As long as they are socket compatible, they're the next generation for these machines, whether you consider them a new chip or not.
Am i the only one that seems to think that WWDC is getting clogged up with TOO many things? I mean sure the more Apple products released/updated the better, but this keynote seems to be taking a lot of emphasis off of Leopard previews (according to the rumors)
It's all just rumor at this point. More than 2 computer announcments would be very unlikely, and the idea that all macs would get updated at once is ridiculous.
Well it's back to the future for all of us. Remember when the Mac was going 64-bit with the introduction of the G5 PowerMac on June 23, 2003? :rolleyes: Only more thanthree years later and we're doing it all over again thanks to Yonah's 7 month retrograde.
The only mac that took a step back was the iMac, and it never took advantage of any of the 64 bit advantages in the first place.
I can't figure out why it wouldn't have a 2nd slot or FW800. They're both cheap enough to add. The only problem is the 2nd slot adds some height, but not that much. This unit would be less than 5" tall. And anyway, how do you backup your CD's?
A second slot is overkill for a midline model. And Apple has obviously made the decision that FW800 is a pro feature only, if it's not in the 15 inch MBP. Not to mention that it's not included in the standard intel chipsets, so adding it is extra work for Apple.
Remember that the G5 is 64 bit. While the consumer apps may not be too directly affected at first, (speed increases, but nothing else), as more memory is required, 32 bit will hit a brick wall at 4GiB, whereas 64 bit can go along happily to 2,305,843,009,200,000,000GiB.
And since the iMacs have never supported more than 2 gigs of ram, how is that a step back by switching them to Yonah?
Macnoviz
Jul 20, 05:07 PM
Let's hope the "opposite of Hyperthreading" will come along (Leopard feature???).. So, instead of a "emulating" a Dual Core / CPU config (like on later Pentium 4's), emulate a Single CPU on multiple cores. :cool:
Then, you get 8 * 3 GHz = 1 * 24 GHz...!!!
I think Reverse Hyperthreading will have to be processor-bound, like Hyperthreading. Intel has its mitosis project, so let's hope that works out well!
Then, you get 8 * 3 GHz = 1 * 24 GHz...!!!
I think Reverse Hyperthreading will have to be processor-bound, like Hyperthreading. Intel has its mitosis project, so let's hope that works out well!
jacg
Jul 27, 10:22 AM
Ah and where has the wireless mouse/kbd option gone in the store? Maybe they will be free with the upgraded iMacs.
According to the bluetooth mighty mouse info at apple.com, you still need a wired keyboard and mouse to install the thing. When you went for the wireless option before, did you get a wired keyboard too?
Also, are there any how-to guides for upgrading Yonah iMacs to Merom?
According to the bluetooth mighty mouse info at apple.com, you still need a wired keyboard and mouse to install the thing. When you went for the wireless option before, did you get a wired keyboard too?
Also, are there any how-to guides for upgrading Yonah iMacs to Merom?
excalibur313
Aug 7, 05:07 PM
Do you think that the developers who get a copy of leopard will have access to the top secret features? If so then I wouldn't doubt if some of the features got leaked faster than apple intended. Heck, last time within a week tiger as an os was lead. Yes I know the guy was sued but it would have been very hard to track who did it if he hadn't put everything he was doing in a blog.
Macaroony
Mar 3, 04:08 AM
I'm sorry, Bill, but your logic has one big flaw.
If you decided to live celibately while other heterosexuals are open to have sex in a [monogamous] relationship, that's fine by me but what you're implying is that every homosexual should be celibate, so what's the point of being attracted to the same-sex at all in your logic?
I believe you have to label yourself asexual from now on, since not having or craving sex makes you neither a homosexual nor heterosexual.
If you decided to live celibately while other heterosexuals are open to have sex in a [monogamous] relationship, that's fine by me but what you're implying is that every homosexual should be celibate, so what's the point of being attracted to the same-sex at all in your logic?
I believe you have to label yourself asexual from now on, since not having or craving sex makes you neither a homosexual nor heterosexual.
relimw
Aug 6, 04:02 PM
The internet didn't exist in 1988. He was probably a local business.
::blink::
<sarcasm>
I beg to differ, just because Al Gore didn't invent the internet until 1988 doesn't mean it didn't exist before then :)
</sarcasm>
But this is totally off topic, back to the rumors...
Apple wows world with intermodalnet! Now you really can take the internet with you!
::blink::
<sarcasm>
I beg to differ, just because Al Gore didn't invent the internet until 1988 doesn't mean it didn't exist before then :)
</sarcasm>
But this is totally off topic, back to the rumors...
Apple wows world with intermodalnet! Now you really can take the internet with you!
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